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Why do you live in a Non-Muslim Country??


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#21 Guest_Nahla05_*

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 07:05 PM

i don't know why i'm living in non-muslim country exactly.
but what i know, is that i'm living here, so then i can work freely, and a dgree for being somebody, for example a degree of being a surgeon / doctor.
And one day, inshallah, i will live in a muslim country, where all my relative lives!!  biggrin.gif

#22 khadi1

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 10:10 PM

Assalamou aleikoum wa Rahmatoullah wa Barakatou,

We want to emigrate to a muslim country for the last few years, my dh is ready to move to KSA, but it is me who is holding back because we have a severely disabled little boy who need a lot of medical attention, and here, it is nearly free if not free, and his monthly medication bill and feed amount to which we could not afford in KSA. His special feed only, would be around 40,000 KSA ryals  (it is about 680) so, it is why I am reluctant to go, astaghfirullah... Dh says that Allah will provide for him (our son) , but even though I have Inshallah a good faith, I am still weak when it comes to my son, and I say I could not bear it to see him dying of hunger if we could not get his feed.... :cry:  :cry: and that I could not eat if I could not feed him.... Inshallah, we'll find a way to  get around this .........My only worry is that if Hijrah is obligatory, and as I am the one who is holding  my husband back because my eeman is not strong enough to leave it all and say Allah will provide for my little boy,  I'll have to answer to this....this is one of my biggest dilemna , should we go or should we stay?? and I do not know any other muslim country where life would be easier anyway, regarding healthcare,  I have to get hold of oxygen and other medication that are not standard and my husband has to get hold of the money ... I know that other mums in my situation understand me, but is this an excuse????? Allahu Alam...

#23 *mariam*

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 10:24 PM

assalamu Alikum

sister Khadi, i felt so sad when I read your post :cry: . it reminds us of all that we take for advantage. may Allah reward you and your family with the highest Jannah. Jannat al-Firdous, inshaallah.

KSA is a really good place to live, alhamdullilah we came here last year, when my dad decided it was better for us to come here. so he applied for a job here, and alhamdulillah we are here. as for my years in the west, I thank Allah for them, because I actually benefitted from them before coming here, I mean it made me realize the real value of living in a Muslim country. Inshallah we can stay here forever.

as for all my sisters who are thinking about KSA, i say, if you can, go for it. make it a hijrah for the sake of Allah, and He will never leave you lost.
May Allah guide and help all the Muslims
salam
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#24 *mariam*

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Posted 19 December 2004 - 10:35 PM

Assalamu ALikum

I forgot to add:

Always ask Allah for what is best for you, since He is the One who knows all that is good for us and all that is bad for us.

we may think something is bad for us when it is actually full of benefit and vice versa.

I ask Allah to help all the Muslims and guide them to what is right.
Ameen
salam
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#25 Ola

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 06:42 PM

assalmu alikum,

I grew up in the west, b/c that's where my family was living. However, i recently moved to KSA and I LOVE IT here. Alhamidullah. At first, before I came, i didn't want to come at all b/c I used to hear all these rumors about KSA. When i came here, i found that most of these rumors were not true.  

I realized it's a great blessing from Allah (swt) to live close to islam's two most sacred places (makkah and madinah),to be able to perform umrah and hajj every once in a while. sisters, if u get the oppurtunity to live in ksa, then make salat al istikharah and go. and remember to always ask Allah (swt) for what is good for you, fo He knows best.

[size=18]Sister Khadi, May Allah (swt) grant you the highest place in jannah for taking care of your son. Ameen

salam
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#26 lowri_mai

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Posted 20 December 2004 - 10:00 PM

QUOTE(Allah Meri Tauba)
Assalamu alaikum,

QUOTE
I don't know about KSA, but here in Kuwait you can't get the nationality unless you're of Kuwaiti descent, it doesn't matter if you're Arab or non-Arab.  


Yep Saudi is the same..

You can stay as long as your Husband/Father has a job there but when its over..bye bye! wink.gif

About dawah..you can still give dawah to your family I think..
It doesnt mean you are never going to see them again..you can visit & they will visit & how great a dawah is that to visit your Islamic household in a beautiful Islamic country smile.gif


Asalaamu Alaykum

actually in Saudi even many Arabs are not citizens including bedouins and those from other certain tribes and families; even if their ancestry is there.  On the other hand the authorities there do grant citizenship to some people of other backgrounds these days. My husband is like this, he is UK citizen but was never a Saudi citizen and thus his father could not create a business there or own property without the risk of it being closed or confiscated; my husband was born in Saudi and he can trace his ancestry there back to before The Prophet Subhana Wa Ta'ala.  Their life was so terrible there they had no choice but to come to the UK, when my dh was 9.  Now when he visits Saudi he is always detained at customs because the UK rarely gives nationality to Saudis and thus they think he is some kind of political dissident. He has tried to apply for jobs in many Muslim countries but a lot of companies are actually looking for non Muslim european people; and also he does not have the experience even though he is a very fluent Arabic speaker; also to set up long term in most Arab countries you do need quite a lot of money; either for courses to learn how to teach; or to set up a home or whatever; we don't have this at the moment and are in a lot of financial trouble; still inshaAllah we do have the intention to make hijrah when it is made possible for us...


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#27 Badreya

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 06:35 AM

Salam alaikum, it amazes me but MOST OF US TODAY - MUSLIMS ARE REFUGEES.
Even if we have a citizinship we are not realy wanted by any government - specificaly if you are a practicing Muslim!  Security is not something we can rely on anymore, we are back to square 1.
That Island I posted about a few times, I realy wish it exsisted sometimes.

#28 Ola

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 01:07 PM

Assalmu Alikum,

Actually, KSA has made these new laws allowing nonsaudis to apply for saudi citizenship, but you have to have lived there for more than 10 years, speak arabic fluently and have a professional job there. sad.gif

salam
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#29 micabadaraco

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 04:19 PM

Well I must say that moving here to the UAE wasn't a good choice for me and my husband, astaghfirulla for saying it. I've been here for almost a year and both of us have gotten so weak in our faith that's it's unbelievable. I can't believe that we were stronger in a western society with all the fitna, lack of muslims and muslim resources. We haven't found any good practicing muslims anywhere in the UAE and they treat people here with disrespect no matter if you're a foreigner or an arab. My job is an example. My boss who is muslim and covers up mashaAllah screams at her employees like their kids infront of parents of the children and other people. She makes you fear going to work. You screaming back will end you without a job and without a visa (if you have a residence visa with that company) so that means you have to leave the country. So basically you're never a citizen here, you're always treated as an outsider cuz of your visa and it expires. Getting a visa for me here was so hard that I had to do it illegally so that I could stay in the country.  I've had so many people talk to me in a rude way I'm starting to become like that as well. I seriously don't know what customer service is anymore cuz you don't get that here unless you're in touristy places in Dubai. The people who actually know customer service are the foreigners like British/American/Canadian/Europeans. What disgusts me is that the people here who treat each other badly are muslims. What image does that give to non-muslims? It's hard to find reverts here and english lectures that are ahlus sunnah wal jamaa. Sometimes they say they are on the sunnah but actually there is a lot of bidaa in their teachings. Even if you're muslim here and covered you feel out of place because a lot of muslims here don't cover up correctly or don't cover at all. And a lot who wear khimar or niqaab are forced to because it's their tradition so it's not their own choice.
It's so weird how they try to live like the west here and that's happening to most muslim countries now a days. I seriously don't see the difference between here and Canada because in Canada I was practicing my religion fine and the jumaa (muslim community) encouraged me to be strong and more into my deen. The problem is jumaa because if you don't have that, it's really hard to stay on path. My husband did find some good practicing brothers mashaAllah but going to lectures and even talking to them is hard because the work hours here are 6 days a week and you work split shifts. Like from 8-1 and back to work at like 4-7. When you come home you're already tired and you have only friday off and everyone wants to do their own thing on that day. It's very very hard to find a government job and get off at 2 pm. So contacting his friends and keeping in touch with them is hard because everyone is busy.
And yes the adhan publicly, being able to wear muslim clothing freely and the muslim resrouces is a plus I must admit but other than that, it's making me really home sick. I didn't get along with my family that well in Canada and was quite independent anyways so they are not the ones making me feel homesick. What's making me that way is the muslim life I lead in the west. It was much more beneficial I think and I was not ashamed to show that I was muslim. It's not like canadians look at me like some alien with a headcover and abaya when it's a hot summer.
I know hijrah is obligatory not even recommended, but subhanAllah, with all the things that has happened while I was here, I question why I would stay in this place. My husband keeps saying sabr sabr and I am seriously trying. And I don't know about Saudi, Egypt, Syria or other places cuz I've never been. So this is only an opinion from me living in the UAE.

#30 DemaChanRas

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 07:02 PM

As Salaamu Alaikum,
(i havent read all of the post)

Well first I would like to say there is no country that actually implements Shariah law.  I see you are a new convert, so you may or may not be aware of this.  Yes there are some countries, like Saudi Arabia, who claim they have Shariah law... but they really dont.  Sadly, I think many many Muslims (paticularly new converts) are under this impression that the Muslim majority countries are actually much much more better than the non-Muslim majority countries... and personally that is not the case.


The reason why I live in the a non-Muslim majority country is because of my parents.  The reason why I live ina  non-Muslim (note: no majority) is because there is no Musim country out there.

I dont ever plan to move to a Muslim majority country because in my personal opinion, I feel that I would be able to practice Islam better in a non-Muslim majority country (with the current times).  

Why?  Because in Muslim majority countries there is tooooooo much CULTURE traditions that are weaved into our pure Islam.  I also feel that Islam gives me a right to intepret, make my own decisisions, and practice Islam (whethere it be right or wrong) the way that I feel that is best for me.   I find that in Muslim majority country LAWS are very strict when it comes to Islam.  If someone states their opinion, that may be different from what majority may believe.... that person can seriously be punished... even when you look at it, their opinion wasnt against Islam or even supporting an action that is against Islam... jus a different opinion and interpertation.  Basically I feel there isnt room for someone to interpert in these countries.  

And I also feel that as a woman, I will be more protected in the USA, than in the Muslim majority countries.  I feel that Muslim majority countries are way too stuck in the past, and not really into reality.  Here I could probably find a shelter and actually be treated like a VICTIM if my husband was to beat me.... but there, there are people who are against shelters for women, and women arent treated like the victim at all.  She is the one that has shamed the family.... again I feel, that there, Muslims are too wrapped into their culture, face, and honor and are still holding on to customs that are clearly agaisnt Islam.   And this is the norm.

Of course there would be positives to moving a Muslim majority country.  I would have better access to Islamic things... like halaal food. I wouldnt have to worry much about that.  And I could also practice Islam easier than here too... like if I was to step out and where a niqab, I probably wouldnt get any stares and what not.  And wondering how to explain to someone why I'm praying wouldnt be an issue either.

But whe it comes to laws, equal rights, and the fact that I can intepret Islam...... I am perfectly ok with living in the USA and staying.

But of course everyone has their opinion.  And there will be some who will like to differ.  Please sisters, I dont want to debate about what I have said, I'm just giving my reasons why I am and will choose to live in non-Muslim majority country like USA. (uhh my pc is still acting up and stuff, so it would probably be better if you pmed me if you have any specific comments about what I said... because i probably wont be back on until a while)

salaam

#31 Badreya

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 07:25 PM

WOW :twisted: The UAE cituation is pathetic.
Have you ever heard muslims say, "I woke up in the West!". :wink:

#32 *mariam*

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 09:39 PM

QUOTE(DemaChanRas)
As Salaamu Alaikum,
(i havent read all of the post)

Well first I would like to say there is no country that actually implements Shariah law.   Yes there are some countries, like Saudi Arabia, who claim they have Shariah law... but they really dont.



Assalamu Alikum

I really don't want to start an argument about this subject, but I felt that I really had to speak out against this, since our respected scholars have done before and still do.

I am referring specifically to Saudi Arabia, not the other countries.
I have heard scholars, like 'Uthaimeen (rahimahullah), speaking against people who go against KSA, claiming that it does not implement the sharia. you must be living or experienced living in KSA to find out about the real situation. I don't blame you at all if you said this, because i know lots of rumors are spread about KSA.

My point is I have experienced living in the west for 12 years, and when I came to KSA (just recently) I saw the HUGE difference between living here and the west.

while I dont claim that KSA is perfect in its implementation of the sharia, they at least have taken this as their code of law, and try to implement some of it. except for in the time of the Prophet (saw) and the righteous Khulafaa, there was NO islamic nation that implemented the sharia perfectly. so we are not looking for perfection, because we will never get.

we are looking at a country that has the lowest drug consumption in the world. why? because they apply the death penalty to every drug dealer.

we are looking at a country where women are covered outside, and you don't have to see people with almost no clothes.

we are looking at a country where every murderer is sentenced to death (unless the family of the murdered forgives).

we are looking at a country where the  sale of alcohol and indecent magazines is prohibited. even if a plane is on top of KSA territory and did not land yet, they must immediately stop serving alcohol and giving out indecent magazines.

I will not go on. but i have a message to all my sisters who are considering coming to KSA. Make Istikhara and go for it biggrin.gif  biggrin.gif

I hope I didn't offend anyone, as that was not my intention. please forgive me.

salam
Mariam smile.gif  smile.gif

#33 Badreya

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 10:24 PM

Salam alaikum there is no perfect place, and although I am not a Saudi Basher, I do think there are laws that are not Islamic.
Mainly to people who have lived there all thier lives, generation after generation, women who marry saudi's, give birth to Saudi/foreign (dual citizenship) children........who cannot get a nationality without waiting 10 years.
On the other hand they do a lot of other wonderful things - so although it's not 100% Islamic, it could use some improvement.  As so many places on this earth.

BTW - there is a lot of hashish smoking over there :idea:

#34 khadi1

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 09:03 PM

assalamou aleikoum wa Rahmatoullah wa Barakatou,

I have a question :

why do we focus so much on getting the nationality of the country we want to emigrate too???
I explain : i have been in UK for twenty odd years now, even though I felt at home, I did not feel the need to ask for the citizenship... it only recently because of the hijab ban that I may consider it.....if  I went to KSA or Jordan or Oman, well, I would still be french... I would expect to have my rights as a muslims and as a human beings the same as if I was of this nationality... well, a bit like UK,  I can live there, but I cannot vote, for me, i do not see a problem......
I am not sure if I have explained myself well, but what bonus do you have by having a citizenship in the muslim country of your choice ?????

As for emigrating, my first choice would be KSA for all the reasons that sis *Mariam* listed... do not  forget that it is the same as everywhere, there is corruption all over the world, but at least, when you go in the streets, you do not see fitnah and indecency... we are not saying it does not exist there,people who do not practice the deen will always smuggle alcohol and have mixed parties and what else behind closed doors, but we do not go there for the people, we go there for the Deen , not for an easy life....but it is true that I have heard many kinds of weird and disturbing stories, but then again, if we cannot verify them......we should discard them...
Inshallah, I'll get around this healthcare thingy in a good way for my little boy....ameen...

#35 Write4Islam

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 09:20 PM

As-salamu Alaykum Khadi,
There are many reasons someone might want to have the citizenship of the country he/she is living in.

First of all, as a citizen, you have the right to stay in the country! If not, you will be on a tourist, student or work visa and might have to leave if you lose your job or your visa otherwise expires. In some cases, foreigners have to pay fees to live in the country or are prevented from making the same salary as citizens. Discrimination is alive and well in many countries.

As a citizen, you can vote (if you so choose) and might have the rights to other benefits, such as healthcare. As a non-citizen, you have no rights whatsoever.

If you're not a citizen, you will not transfer citizenship to your children (unless their father is a citizen himself), so your kids could grow up without the basic rights to services such as schooling and other important things. Many children live as non-citizens and never get the benefits that citizens have as adults.

In many cases, you must also be a citizen to own a business or buy/build a home.

In the case of lawsuits, divorce and other legal problems, you will have less rights as a non-citizen.

So there are many reasons to become a citizen. This is the reality of the world we live in.

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#36 yamina

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Posted 24 December 2004 - 04:48 AM

Assalaamu alaikum,

sis Khadi when I previously lived in the UK, I never thought about the issue of getting citizenship as there I'm allowed to stay forever if I want to. But here it's not as simple as that, like I already said in another post if our visas one day were cancelled or couldn't be renewed, we would have to leave. And laws keep changing here every now and then, and often they're not even applied. If you happen to be from a so called  terrorist country (I know this is a stupid term, but that's what some fellow muslim countries are regarded as here), you can expect more problems with processing your papers than people of other nationalities. I know someone who came here from a western country with great expectations, but has been so disappointed with how her dh has been treated by his employer, and there is nothing they can do, if he breaks the employment contract he'll have to pay a huge fine.  And their case is not an exceptional case, I've heard about many other ones where people are  under very unfavourable working conditions, but there's NOTHING they can do, as their staying here depends our their employer.

Another thing is that you can forget about retiring in a Muslim country as a non-citizen. The day you stop working you'll have to leave. If you did work for the government for over 30 years, they'll renew your visa for another 5 years, but do you think people would stay? No, they'll go back to their country and live in the home that they've bought with money they earned here, why stay and pay more rent, because as a non-citizen you'll never be able to buy property.

Alhamdulillah, I'm happy here, but Allahu alem we'll not live here forever.  When we bring the fatwas saying that hijrah to a Muslim country is fard, nobody mentions that the Muslim countries are making it impossible to achieve this!!! Then I mean PERMANENT hijrah, because I don't consider myself as having done hijrah, as long as I know I can only stay here for a limited period of time. If I had citizenship it would all have been different, I don't care so much about the right to vote, women can't vote here anyhow, but I care about the right to STAY right where I am :wink:

Yamina

#37 hopyawe

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 04:41 AM

biggrin.gif Assalum Alikom sisters! Subhanallah - great topic. :wink: I live New York, but I'm from the Midwest-I live here because I was born here.  I'm not quite sure where I'm supposed to go next, but insha'Allah Allah will not lead me astray.  My husband is from Egypt, so I would love to go there to visit-but before we move anywhere I have MUCH research to do.  I know in my heart that in sha'Allah the first time I hear the call to prayer I will know where I belong.  I think the key is to hear that call to prayer in your heart no matter where you are physically! To truly fear for Allah in your heart and soul you will know where your home is.  Elhumdulillah. :wink:
Assalum Alikom Sisters
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#38 Ola

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 07:23 PM

Assalamu Alikum,

I agree with sister mariam, no country is perfect and there will never be one b/c no one is perfect.

Not only does ksa has what sister mariam mentioned, but one of the things i like about it is that you can have fun, without doing anything haram. i can take a walk along the corniche or shop at a mall w/o seeing semi-naked women, amusement parks have a seperate lines and seperate turns for ladies and men, there are days at the zoo where only women and children can go, at restaurants each family sits behind a curtain or closed doors (so u can take off the niqab), no music in public places, etc.


Alhamidullilah for everything.

salam biggrin.gif

#39 tygrss

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 07:58 PM

Quote

When we bring the fatwas saying that hijrah to a Muslim country is fard, nobody mentions that the Muslim countries are making it impossible to achieve this!!!


Assalamu alaykum.

Funny, I was just having a conversation with someone a week or so ago when this same point was mentioned. It's mind-boggling really.  :?

#40 Luka

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Posted 25 December 2004 - 08:04 PM

Quote

Assalamu Alikum,

I agree with sister mariam, no country is perfect and there will never be one b/c no one is perfect.

Not only does ksa has what sister mariam mentioned, but one of the things i like about it is that you can have fun, without doing anything haram. i can take a walk along the corniche or shop at a mall w/o seeing semi-naked women, amusement parks have a seperate lines and seperate turns for ladies and men, there are days at the zoo where only women and children can go, at restaurants each family sits behind a curtain or closed doors (so u can take off the niqab), no music in public places, etc.


Alhamidullilah for everything.

salam biggrin.gif


Salaam aleikum

Okay, thats funny. Here in Norway, i can go to shoppingmalls and dont see any semi-naked women. Its not usual here. When i go to amusement parks, there is no problem if there is a man there, men dont touch women here randomly in a queue, like they tend to do in very segragated countries. They back off. Specially women in hijab, they dare not look at us, afraid that some Arab will jump out of the bush and being jalous hehe...

I hear music in public places once a year, and thats in christmas... But i am no fool, i would not dare to go shopping in christmas anyway. Sometimes there is music out, but easy to avoid, just go to a shop. They are quiet.




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