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Sisters...are we strongly weighing the advice we are giving?


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#1 Guest_yasmeen28_*

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Posted 30 October 2005 - 01:23 AM

Assalamu Alaikum,

Sisters,
For those of you who are not familiar with my post, I posted about being a new Muslim and having an issue, with trying to raise my son from a non-muslim. For the full story you can go see the post from Oct 28 under the title: "New Muslima trying to raise children from kaffir father." I wanted to post this as a new topic because it has been heavy on my mind. I have read advice given out of every reply I have recieved, and I am sure they were all with nothing but the best of intentions......Allah knows best.......but, one thing that I tried to mention as a follow up response, I still do not think anyone has seen it. Here is the original post:

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:45 pm    Post subject: Jazak Allahu Khair!    

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Asssalamu Alaaikum Wa Rahmatulah Wa Barakatu!

Sisters, I greatly appreciate your advice. As I tried to respond to each of you privately, I also wanted to let any other sisters in this forum know how much I appreciate any advice given on this site. It is wonderful to have the opportunity to talk to sisters from all over and get their point of view on issues.

More importantly, one thing that was instilled in me, when I became Muslim, such a short time ago, was that when making any decisions in Islam, there are three very important ways to go about it. #1 What does the Qu'ran say, #2 if you cannot find it there, look at what the Sunnah and or Hadith of the Prophet (SAWS) said, and if you still cannot find it there, take it to a Shayk. Well, obviously, my particular cirsumstance was a little hard to find clear evidence from the Qu'ran, so the next bit of evidence I was seeking was something from the Sunnah and or Hadith. Unfortunatley, being new Muslima, I am not sure where or what those resources are to access, (even though I am sure they are out there  ), so I thought the next best thing would be to consult some sisters in Islam. Surely, we all as Muslims are aware of the best way to weigh and give sound advice to any of our brothers and sisters in Islam.

I think it is very important to be absolutley sure that the path that you are taking is as close to the Book and or Sunnah as it can possibly be, Insha Allah.

So maybe in addition to any advice that any sister may have to offer, It would also be a great resource to me, if someone had some links or resources that I may reference regarding the Sunnah and or Hadith. From what I see, everyone here has so many wonderful things to offer, Masha Allah!


Now I will restate it in words more clearly from the Qur'an:

As Allah says in the Qur'an:

[quote]"If you dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the Messenger"; "The answer of the believers, when summoned to Allah and His Messenger, in order that he may judge between them is no other than this: they say: "We hear and we obey"; "But no, by thy Lord, they can have no (real) faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction."[/size][/quote] Those verses and others similar to them are the clearest evidence that one must return to the rule of Allah and His Messenger if there is any dispute. The rule of Allah is the Book of Allah. The rule of the Messenger, after his passing away, is his sunnah. Also, Allah did not endow any of his slaves - even if he reaches the highest degree of knowledge and has accumulated what no one else has - with the right to make any statement concerning this religion without any authority from the Book or the Sunnah. Likewise, if a mujtahid (jurisconsult) should take liberty of proposing an opinion without substantiating it, then it is not permissible for anyone to follow him in that, regardless of who he may be

So, as a new Muslim, I really thought that I could get responses that were followed by.....In the Qur'an.....or The Prophet (SAWS) according the the Sunnah or Hadith...........but, it seems that really all that I have recieved is more motherly advice full of opinions instead of what does Islam say about this subject. Don't get me wrong, motherly advice is important, but Islam is not about making decisions based off of what we as mother's think is right or wrong. So, after posting here I was directed to another sight and looked at the results according to similar questions. These answers are according to fatwas:

Question:

[quote]I find disciplining my children difficult and often become angry and beat them. Can you give me any advice on the subject, as well as any books that would be appropriate to read?.

Answer:

[quote]Praise be to Allaah.  

Raising and educating children is one of the duties required of parents. Allaah has enjoined that in the Qur'aan, and the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also enjoined that. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"O you who believe! Ward off yourselves and your families against a Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones, over which are (appointed) angels stern (and) severe, who disobey not, (from executing) the Commands they receive from Allaah, but do that which they are commanded
[al-Tahreem 66:6]

Imam al-Tabari said, commenting on this verse:

Here Allaah is saying: O you who believe in Allaah and His Messenger, "Ward off yourselves" teach one another that which will protect those who do it from the Fire and ward it off from them, if it is done in obedience to Allaah and they do it in obedience to Allaah. The phrase "and your families against a Fire" means, and teach your families to do acts of obedience to Allaah so that they may protect themselves from the Fire. Tafseer al-Tabari, 18/165

Al-Qurtubi said:

Muqaatil said: This is a duty that he owes to himself, his children, his family and his male and female slaves. Ilkiya said: We have to teach our children and families religious commitment and goodness, and what they cannot do without of etiquette. This is what Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

"And enjoin As-Salaat (the prayer) on your family, and be patient in offering them [i.e. the Salaat (prayers)]"

[Ta-Ha 20:132]

And Allaah said to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) (interpretation of the meaning):

"And warn your tribe (O Muhammad) of near kindred"

[al-Shu'ara' 26:214]

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

"And teach them (children) to pray when they are seven years old."
Tafseer al-Qurtubi, 18/196 The Muslim - any Muslim - is a daa'iyah who calls people to Allaah, so the first people whom he calls should be his children and family who are close to him. When Allaah commanded His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to call people, He said (interpretation of the meaning):

"And warn your tribe (O Muhammad) of near kindred"

[al-Shu'ara' 26:214]

because they are the first people to whom he should do good and show mercy.  

The Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) gave the parents the responsibility of raising the children and made that obligatory upon them.

It was narrated that 'Abd-Allaah ibn 'Umar said: I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: "Each of you is a shepherd and each of you is responsible for his flock. The ruler is a shepherd and is responsible for his flock. A man is the shepherd of his family and is responsible for his flock. A woman is the shepherd of her husband's household and is responsible for her flock. A servant is the shepherd of his master's wealth and is responsible for his flock." He said: and I think he said, "A man is the shepherd of his father's wealth and is responsible for his flock. Each of you is a shepherd and is responsible for his flock."

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 583; Muslim, 1829.

Part of your duty is to bring them up from a young age to love Allaah and His Messenger and to love the teachings of Islam. You should tell them that Allaah has a Paradise and a Hell; that His Hell is hot and its fuel is men and stones. The following story contains an important lesson.

Ibn al-Jawzi said:

There was a king who had a lot of wealth, and he had a daughter and no other children. He loved her very much, and he used to let her enjoy all kinds of entertainment. This went on for a long time. Beside the king there lived a devoted worshipper, and whilst he was reciting one night, he raised his voice saying, "O you who believe! Ward off yourselves and your families against a Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones " [al-Tahreem 66:6 - interpretation of the meaning]. The girl heard his recitation and said to her servants, "Stop!" But they did not stop. The worshipper started to repeat the verse, and the girl kept telling them to stop, but they did not stop. She put her hands to her collar and tore her garment, and they went to her father and told him the story. He went to her and said, "My dear, what happened to you tonight? What made you weep?" and he hugged her. She said, "I ask you by Allaah, O my father, to tell me, does have Allaah have a Fire the fuel of which is men and stones?" He said, "Yes." She asked him, "Why did you not tell me? By Allaah I will not eat any good food or sleep on any soft bed until I know whether my abode is in Paradise or Hell."

Safwat al-Safwah, 4/437-438

You have to keep them away from the places of immorality and misguidance; do not leave them to grow up with evil things from the television etc, then after that expect them to be righteous, for whoever sows thorns cannot harvest grapes.  That should be done when they are young, so that it will be easy for them when they grow up, and they will get used to it, and it will be easy for you to tell them what to do and what not to do, and it will be easy for them to obey you.

It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Teach your children to pray when they are seven years old, and smack them if they do not do so when they are ten, and separate them in their beds."

Narrated by Abu Dawood, 495; classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami', 5868

But the educator must be merciful, forbearing, easy-going and approachable, not foul-mouthed or unkempt, arguing in a manner that is better, far removed from insulting, rebuking and beating, unless the child is one of those who willfully disobey and rejects his father's commands and neglects his duties and does haraam things; in that case it is better to use stern measures with him, without causing him harm.
Al-Minaawi said: For a father to discipline his child when he reaches the age of discernment [??] means that he should raise him with the characteristics of the righteous believers and protect him from mixing with evildoers; he should teach him the Qur'aan and good manners and the language of the Arabs, let him hear the Sunnah and the sayings of the Salaf and teach him the religious rulings that he cannot do without. He should warn him then smack him if he does not pray etc. That will be better for him than giving a saa' in charity, because if he teaches him properly, his actions will be among his ongoing charity, whereas the reward for a saa' of charity is limited, but that will last as long as the child lives. Discipline is the nourishment of the soul, and training it for the Hereafter.  

"O you who believe! Ward off yourselves and your families against a Fire (Hell)."

[al-Tahreem 66:6 - interpretation of the meaning]  

Protecting yourself and your family from it means reminding them of Hell. Discipline includes preaching, warning, threatening, smacking, detaining, giving and being kind. Disciplining one who is good and noble is different from disciplining one who is difficult and ignoble.

Fayd al-Qadeer, 5/257

Smacking is a means of correcting the child; it is not something that it wanted in and of itself, rather it is resorted to if the child is stubborn and disobedient.

There is a system of punishment in Islam, and there are many punishments in Islam, such as the hadd punishments for adultery, theft, slander, etc. All of these are prescribed in order to set the people straight and put a stop to their evil.

Concerning such matters the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) advised parents to deter their children from doing wrong.

It was narrated from Ibn 'Abbaas that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Hang your whip where the members of the household can see it, for that will discipline them."

Narrated by al-Tabaraani, 10/248; its isnaad was classed as hasan by al-Haythami in Majma' al-Zawaa'id, 8/106

Al-Albaani said in Saheeh al-Jaami', 4022, it is hasan.

So raising children should be a balance between encouragement and warning. The most important element of all is making the environment in which the children live a good one, by providing the means whereby they may be guided; this means that their educators should be religiously committed, including their parents.
[/quote]


It seems as though this kind of response is closer to what the Qur'an says about giving advice, as it is full of evidence from the Qur'an and Sunnah.
I was hoping to see kind of response as I entered my question. The advice that was given to me that I can relate closest to what was stated in these evidences above are:
[quote]be very gentle with your son for he is only seven(this is the age children just begin to pray but by 10 they have an obligation to pray). [/quote]

[quote]try to be gentle[/quote]

[b]Closest to this evidence:

Narrated by Abu Dawood, 495; classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami', 5868

But the educator must be merciful, forbearing, easy-going and approachable


So.... I just ask this question with only the best of intentions....and Allah knows best......

[size=12][b]Sisters, Are we strongly weighing the advice that we are giving?


Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatulah Wa Barakatu.
Yasmeen

#2 Guest_nickname_*

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Posted 30 October 2005 - 01:55 AM

So you're just eager to beat your son and force islam upon him.   You're a pathetic mother.    I feel so sorry for your little boy who has to suffer because of your insecurities and lack of identity which resulted in your adopting someone else's identity.  As someone else so aptly put it, you've become an "alien" to him.   He's going to grow up to hate you.   I wish his father would take him from you.

#3 khadi1

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Posted 30 October 2005 - 02:18 PM

Assalamou aleikoum wa Rahmatoullah wa barakatou,

Mashallah, dear sister, it was very well worded and jazakallahu khayr for the reminder about weighing the advice we give.

[quote}Closest to this evidence:
Narrated by Abu Dawood, 495; classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami', 5868

But the educator must be merciful, forbearing, easy-going and approachable, not foul-mouthed or unkempt, arguing in a manner that is better, far removed from insulting, rebuking and beating, unless the child is one of those who willfully disobey and rejects his father's commands and neglects his duties and does haraam things; in that case it is better to use stern measures with him, without causing him harm.


it is true, but in your case, the child's educator is not his father and the child was not raised a muslim. So, maybe it will be better for the mother to ask directly the question to a Scholar as this is a particular situation.

Even though,  I cannot help wondering : (but then again, I am a dizzy whizzy  :wink: ) : all what you say in this new post are exactly the answers that you wanted to have.

So, you have all the answers and still, you  cannot you deal with your son in the manner you describe in this new post. So, you see, your situation is exactly the same as ours :  we may have all the good intentions, but sometimes, we do not know how to formulate it.

I am very confused because we are a sisters' discussion forum, we try to help each other and we are not scholars and we are at different levels of Islamic understanding. so, some sisters will quote plenty from Quran and Hadith and send you some fatwas, some others won't.

No one should criticise the ones who don't, nor should we criticise the one who do.
And also, if you read more posts, Inshallah, you'll see that some sisters get very annoyed when others send fatwas too much.

So, as we cannot please everyone, in the good spirit of Ramadan, we should say Alhamdullilah Kulli haal, and think that many sisters gave their time to read other sisters' post and reply to the best they can.
No one can take this away from them, and if they get it wrong and do not give the advice that is expected, then it does not matter. The important thing is that they cared enough to try to help
.

Inshallah, you 'll stay on this board long enough to teach some of us more Islamic manners than we have and share what you know. Knowledgeable sisters are always welcome and greatly appreciated.

May Allah bless you, dear sis and reward you for whatever your intentions are. Ameen
fi amaneelah. biggrin.gif  biggrin.gif  biggrin.gif
take care




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