As Salaamu Alaikum,
No one is saying that women in the KSA are overwhelming oppressed. No one is saying htat the non-citizens of KSA are overwhelming oppressed either. What we are saying is that to be a non-citizen there, it is, in many cases, very hard. No matter how comfortable you may live your life, you dont have that since of security that the citizens have. Our points have nothing to do with who lives the better life of luxury, we are talking about who has it better when it comes to medical and legal security.
If the women of KSA dont mind not being able to drive, then that is their opinion, and I respect that. That's their way of life. I know I would have a prolem, so I wont move there. Yes manny KSA families have maids and servants... but if an overwhelming number of them have this, then there are an overwhelming number of people who live their lives as servants... and most likely they come from poor families (often immigrants themselves.. which further proves the point of a deep dividing line between immigrants and citizens). So I mean yes, that's cool that so many have maids and servants and caddies, but these servants, maids, and caddies are humans too and often times their employers and the outsiders (who think 'oh wow, everyone has maids and stuff! how awesome'), overlook that.
But again the issue of citizenship has nothing to do about materialistic things or wanting to be a national just to be one. The issue here is about security and rights.
salaam
0
Why do you live in a Non-Muslim Country??
Started by
Guest_AmeenahB_*
, Dec 13 2004 08:46 PM
95 replies to this topic
#82
Posted 07 January 2005 - 03:52 AM
Salam alaikum, currently there is no such thing as security and full rights anywhere, wouldn't you agree?
I don't think that everyone who is Muslim could flock to KSA - there just isn't enough room for everyone.
We or at least I am talking about a bigger picture here. One huge nation.
When Islam was in it's hieghts of power it had a lot more space than just KSA.
Today Islamic country's (countries where Muslims are the majority) expand greater than those of the Uthman empire which was the last Khalifaht.
~~~~Which now include many parts of Asia.~~~
And is ever growing.
I don't think that everyone who is Muslim could flock to KSA - there just isn't enough room for everyone.
We or at least I am talking about a bigger picture here. One huge nation.
When Islam was in it's hieghts of power it had a lot more space than just KSA.
Today Islamic country's (countries where Muslims are the majority) expand greater than those of the Uthman empire which was the last Khalifaht.
~~~~Which now include many parts of Asia.~~~
And is ever growing.
#83
Posted 07 January 2005 - 11:19 AM
Assalam alaikom,
Sister Badreya, I agree with your point that the boundries between all muslim nations should go away and that we should live like one big nation "ummah" being united with the words of Allah and the sunnah of the prophet (pbuh), but untill that day comes, Islam needs muslims to live in non muslim nations, they represent the true reality of Islam to the non muslims, they're serving Islam better than if they were living in a muslim country, as long as they're practicing Islam freely, they're safe in these countries, they have jobs and get paid, their children get good education then why should they need to leave for another country?
Mona
Sister Badreya, I agree with your point that the boundries between all muslim nations should go away and that we should live like one big nation "ummah" being united with the words of Allah and the sunnah of the prophet (pbuh), but untill that day comes, Islam needs muslims to live in non muslim nations, they represent the true reality of Islam to the non muslims, they're serving Islam better than if they were living in a muslim country, as long as they're practicing Islam freely, they're safe in these countries, they have jobs and get paid, their children get good education then why should they need to leave for another country?
Mona
#84
Posted 07 January 2005 - 05:09 PM
QUOTE(Ola E)
most women here have things that western women don’t have (e.g. maids, drivers, huge homes)
Assalaamu alaikum,
and these drivers are non-mahram men!! And it's not permissible for women to ride alone in a car with a non-mahram man! Wasn't this point taken into consideration when the law prohibiting women from driving was passed?? I'm not saying it's a bad law, but unless women have mahrams driving them around they're committing the same sin daily
Yamina
#85
Posted 07 January 2005 - 06:03 PM
Salam alaikum, interestingly enough, in casual conversation with my husband, several times I have asked for a maid for the future (in Kuwait).
He would never allow it.
He would never allow me to have a driver either - NEVER!
Even his own brothers could not be alone in a car with me which is far better than a stranger!
He would never allow it.
He would never allow me to have a driver either - NEVER!
Even his own brothers could not be alone in a car with me which is far better than a stranger!
#86
Posted 07 January 2005 - 06:54 PM
QUOTE(yamina)
QUOTE(Ola E)
most women here have things that western women don’t have (e.g. maids, drivers, huge homes)
Assalaamu alaikum,
and these drivers are non-mahram men!! And it's not permissible for women to ride alone in a car with a non-mahram man! Wasn't this point taken into consideration when the law prohibiting women from driving was passed?? I'm not saying it's a bad law, but unless women have mahrams driving them around they're committing the same sin daily
Yamina
Assalamu Alikum,
I am not saying that having a maid, driver, etc. is a good thing, there is obviously a lot of disadvantages to it . actually, i would never want a maid or driver.
But, remember that the scholars are constantly warning ppl that it is haram for a women to be with a nonmahram driver alone and are constantly warning ppl about a man staying with a maid alone in the house.
There is NO security anywhere in this world. Until now, the US does NOT provide all of its citizens with free healthcare. Is that security?
Again, I NEVER said that KSA is perfect. there are problems here just like there are problems everywhere in the world.
Any good I said is from Allah alone and any evil is from myself and shaitan.
salam, ola
#87
Posted 07 January 2005 - 09:11 PM
QUOTE(DemaChanRas)
As Salaamu Alaikum,
No matter how comfortable you may live your life, you dont have that since of security that the citizens have.
No matter how comfortable you may live your life, you dont have that since of security that the citizens have.
Assalamu Alikum
I understand your natural concern about security. but I want to make it clear that just like when you live in a non-muslim country, and you are not a citizen, you still may feel secure. citizenship may have its benefits and many people talk about it, but so many, just like sister ola said, when they are actually given the offer, they refuse it, because they don't want to give up the citizenship they have.
i also did not mean that wanting education, security, etc. is losing the deen, i actually meant that we should reflect on how the Prophet (saw) went through many hardships, since this would guide us to patience in our hardships inshallah, and teach us that not everything will be the way we want it to be.
I also wanted to point out that there are many non-Muslims here who have been here for over 30 years, and are not even considering leaving, and they now they won't get citizenship, but they say this is the only place they feel secure! subhanallah.
rayofhope said:
"Since Allah (swt) knows all this beforehand and since He wants the best for us, we should just opt for something (like making hijrah) but if it doesn't work out, we should be accepting and realize that it is probably for the best."
sister Zahra, I absolutely agree with this. Allah swt knows what is best for us that is why we should ask him for the best.
I also wanted to point out that I understand that not every Muslim can just go to KSA, it is a difficult process, and its not possible.
may Allah guide us to what is right, for He knows best.
Mariam
#88
Posted 08 January 2005 - 05:39 AM
Asalaam Alaikum,
Sisters, I have read everyone's reasons for being where they are but one thing I find kind of challenging. If all Muslims live in countries that are primarily Muslim, it might make it easier to live your life, but I thought a primary responsibility we have as Muslims is to lead others to the right path? Perhaps, those of us who are living in "challenging places" are there for a specific reason, as in being used as a resource to open Islam to others.
Just my thoughts. :idea:
Sisters, I have read everyone's reasons for being where they are but one thing I find kind of challenging. If all Muslims live in countries that are primarily Muslim, it might make it easier to live your life, but I thought a primary responsibility we have as Muslims is to lead others to the right path? Perhaps, those of us who are living in "challenging places" are there for a specific reason, as in being used as a resource to open Islam to others.
Just my thoughts. :idea:
#89
Posted 08 January 2005 - 02:40 PM
Assalaamu alaikum,
dear sis Ola E, yes I know you're not trying to make KSA to sound like the perfect place :wink: Masha'Allah I'm sure it's a nice place to live, but to be honest I can't see how I could take my kids to school and so on without a driver. That's why I wonder if the benfits of this law outweighs the negative aspects of it.
Btw, lots of women in Kuwait have non-mahram drivers as well even if they're allowed to drive, so that's even worse!
And don't get me started on the issue of maids
I could write a whole page on it! All I'll say is that I think it has gone too far when you need a maid to push your shopping trolley in the supermarket.
Yamina
dear sis Ola E, yes I know you're not trying to make KSA to sound like the perfect place :wink: Masha'Allah I'm sure it's a nice place to live, but to be honest I can't see how I could take my kids to school and so on without a driver. That's why I wonder if the benfits of this law outweighs the negative aspects of it.
Btw, lots of women in Kuwait have non-mahram drivers as well even if they're allowed to drive, so that's even worse!
And don't get me started on the issue of maids
I could write a whole page on it! All I'll say is that I think it has gone too far when you need a maid to push your shopping trolley in the supermarket.
Yamina
#91 Guest_karolin_karima_*
Posted 09 January 2005 - 04:54 AM
Asalamu alaykum Sisters!
My thoughts too Dear Sister!
Earlier I told this in this topic as well. Why I want to stay In Europe for some times sure inshaAllah coz of my family. I do not want to see them in the Hell I want to do everything I can doing dawa for them even if it takes all my life. I think u agree Sisters. Esecially now that my Sister started to think about islam seriously I have to be near her and help teach her, give her my knlowledge InshaAllah and encourage her, and I know maybe for her it takes more time to understand things doeasn't matter this is my job to explain to her, and help. And even my mother the more she listens to me only she starts thinking about islam, but still she is not on the path, so shall i move far from them and let them alone and let them be disbeliever? I think it is a bit selfish sorry to say that that coz I would live in a muslim country easier I let my family to go straight to Hellfire. Coz I know If I cannot visit them often they won't start learning islam I have to push them. We musn't think only about ourselves. This is my opinion. And I do not say muslim countries are not good maybe I would like to live there, but I think my family is more important to make them muslims than my confort in muslim country. And in Europe I will move inshaAllah from a bad country to a better where I will be able to parctise islam inshaAllah but even to be close to my family Hamdullilah. But parctising islam does not depend on the country it depends on u, and I think Allah appriciates it if u are a good muslim in a difficult environment, to be muslim in muslim countries is a lot easier.
Karima
QUOTE(SuharNoor)
Asalaam Alaikum,
Sisters, I have read everyone's reasons for being where they are but one thing I find kind of challenging. If all Muslims live in countries that are primarily Muslim, it might make it easier to live your life, but I thought a primary responsibility we have as Muslims is to lead others to the right path? Perhaps, those of us who are living in "challenging places" are there for a specific reason, as in being used as a resource to open Islam to others.
Just my thoughts. :idea:
Sisters, I have read everyone's reasons for being where they are but one thing I find kind of challenging. If all Muslims live in countries that are primarily Muslim, it might make it easier to live your life, but I thought a primary responsibility we have as Muslims is to lead others to the right path? Perhaps, those of us who are living in "challenging places" are there for a specific reason, as in being used as a resource to open Islam to others.
Just my thoughts. :idea:
My thoughts too Dear Sister!
Earlier I told this in this topic as well. Why I want to stay In Europe for some times sure inshaAllah coz of my family. I do not want to see them in the Hell I want to do everything I can doing dawa for them even if it takes all my life. I think u agree Sisters. Esecially now that my Sister started to think about islam seriously I have to be near her and help teach her, give her my knlowledge InshaAllah and encourage her, and I know maybe for her it takes more time to understand things doeasn't matter this is my job to explain to her, and help. And even my mother the more she listens to me only she starts thinking about islam, but still she is not on the path, so shall i move far from them and let them alone and let them be disbeliever? I think it is a bit selfish sorry to say that that coz I would live in a muslim country easier I let my family to go straight to Hellfire. Coz I know If I cannot visit them often they won't start learning islam I have to push them. We musn't think only about ourselves. This is my opinion. And I do not say muslim countries are not good maybe I would like to live there, but I think my family is more important to make them muslims than my confort in muslim country. And in Europe I will move inshaAllah from a bad country to a better where I will be able to parctise islam inshaAllah but even to be close to my family Hamdullilah. But parctising islam does not depend on the country it depends on u, and I think Allah appriciates it if u are a good muslim in a difficult environment, to be muslim in muslim countries is a lot easier.
Karima
#92
Posted 09 January 2005 - 08:27 AM
QUOTE(Allah Meri Tauba)
Assalamu alaikum,
The kids school bus comes outside your house..your kid gets in, takes them to school & they drop them back aswell.. :!:
The kids school bus comes outside your house..your kid gets in, takes them to school & they drop them back aswell.. :!:
Assalaamu alaikum,
well I wouldn't send a 3 year old attending KG on a school bus, and many schools here don't allow kids on the school buses until the age of five anyway. Any other solutions?
Yamina
#93
Posted 09 January 2005 - 10:02 AM
Assalamu alaikum,
They are not normal buses..they are buses like from the school only..you pay the school for the service..they take the kids to the class & everything..& bring them back to your door..& it is like school supervised..so theres no problem..that is in K.S.A..
So taking your kids to school is not a problem there even if you cant drive..
They are not normal buses..they are buses like from the school only..you pay the school for the service..they take the kids to the class & everything..& bring them back to your door..& it is like school supervised..so theres no problem..that is in K.S.A..
So taking your kids to school is not a problem there even if you cant drive..
#94
Posted 09 January 2005 - 11:33 AM
Assalamu Alikum,
yeah, me too!!!! Here some ppl have the driver push the cart!! but, they're usually old ladies who can't really push it themselves.
Also, almost all schools have buses and even some jobs have buses to pick up women or men who don't have cars.
alhamidulillah.
ola
QUOTE
And don't get me started on the issue of maids I could write a whole page on it! All I'll say is that I think it has gone too far when you need a maid to push your shopping trolley in the supermarket.
yeah, me too!!!! Here some ppl have the driver push the cart!! but, they're usually old ladies who can't really push it themselves.
Also, almost all schools have buses and even some jobs have buses to pick up women or men who don't have cars.
alhamidulillah.
ola
#95
Posted 09 January 2005 - 01:38 PM
Assalaamu alaikum,
yes all the schools have buses here as well, but as I said personally I would let a very young child go on such a bus. Then I would have to live within walking distance to the school instead :wink:
And how is the public transport system in KSA? Do people use it?
I still haven't been on a bus since I moved here. I do miss the tube and the buses that they've in Europe.
Yamina
yes all the schools have buses here as well, but as I said personally I would let a very young child go on such a bus. Then I would have to live within walking distance to the school instead :wink:
And how is the public transport system in KSA? Do people use it?
I still haven't been on a bus since I moved here. I do miss the tube and the buses that they've in Europe.
Yamina
#96
Posted 09 January 2005 - 07:33 PM
Assalamu Alikum,
Assalamu alikum,
i haven't lived here for long and i live in a small city, so i really don't know :oops:
i live in a compound and they have buses that go to shopping centers every day and to the bigger cities. and in the compound there is a supermarket, gift shop, recreation center, daycare and other stuff too. so i can walk to all these. alhamidulillah.
salam,ola
QUOTE
And how is the public transport system in KSA? Do people use it?
Assalamu alikum,
i haven't lived here for long and i live in a small city, so i really don't know :oops:
i live in a compound and they have buses that go to shopping centers every day and to the bigger cities. and in the compound there is a supermarket, gift shop, recreation center, daycare and other stuff too. so i can walk to all these. alhamidulillah.
salam,ola
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